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Oswalt: as in ‘O’ for Reds

By Hal McCoy | Monday, July 28, 2008, 09:47 PM

All you people expecting rumbling changes and rampant housecleaning in the next few days on the Cincinnati Reds roster are in for a monumental disappointment.

Just because the Reds couldn’t finish second in a league of their own these days doesn’t mean general manager Walt Jocketty is going to walk into a room Thursday, the trade deadline, carrying a machete and a broom.

No house-cleaning is going to be done. Adam Dunn is going to stay. Bronson Arroyo is going to stay. No major parts will be missing after Thursday’s deadline.

As manager Dusty Baker said over the weekend, “I expect to have the same roster when we go to Washington (this weekend) as what we have right now.”

All those folks screaming to trade this and trade that for this and for that are out of touch with reality.

Other teams either want the young players, the future, or they want to take high-priced players (like Dunn, like Arroyo) and give nothing in return. Colorado talked about Arroyo, but the Rockies wanted the Reds to eat some of Arroyo’s salary.

Ain’t going to happen.

What is going to happen is that Jocketty is keeping close watch, just as he has done since replacing Wayne Krivsky, for the rest of the season. The off-season should be when the broom comes out of the closet and the machete comes out of the sheath.

Meanwhile, the Reds lost another one Monday night, their fourth straight loss and they are but a sniff and a whiff out of last place - a half game ahead of the Pirates.

So what did you expect? Roy Oswalt was pitching for the Astros. He could put an 8-by-10 color photograph of himself on the mound and half the Reds would go down swinging.

It was pretty much a sure thing that Oswalt would walk out of traction or have himself wheeled out of ICU to face the Cincinnati Reds.

Oswalt came off the disabled list Monday (hip adductor strain), knowing that the Reds turn to silly putty and mushy oatmeal when they see the name Oswalt.

Before Monday in Minute Maid Park, Oswalt was 19-1 for his career against the Reds and he could send his second-born to the mound and the Reds would melt.

Of course, Oswalt is 20-1 against the Reds now, even though he wasn’t very good, even though Adam Dunn hit a grand slam home run.

Oswalt still won, a 5-4 Houston victory that enabled the Astros to move past the Reds into fourth place in the National League Central and enabled the last place Pittsburgh Pirates to creep to within a half game of the Reds.

Oswalt gave up four runs and seven hits in five innings and the Houston bullpen cleaned it up from there — no muss, no fuss, just a little feather-dusting.

Reds starter Johnny Cueto needed 23 pitches to get his first out, never the portent of a good start and when that first out was recorded it was Houston 3, Cincinnati 0.

Oswalt shut the Reds out for two innings, extending Cincinnati’s scoreless innings streak to 16 straight.

An infield hit by Jay Bruce, a solid single by Ken Griffey Jr. that extended his hitting streak to 11 games (every game since the All-Star break) and a walk to Brandon Phillips filled the bases.

Dunn took Oswalt’s first pitch to left center over the yellow line for a grand slam, Dunn’s ninth career and second this year and his 30th home run this season.

That gave the Reds a 4-3 lead, but only until the Astros came to bat in the bottom of the third. Lance Berkman doubled and Geoff Blum crushed a home run to push Houston back in front, 5-4.

Said Oswalt, “The only bad pitch I made was the one to Dunn. I got angry with myself after that and pitched pretty good in the fourth and fifth. I was surprised with the command I had of my curve and fastball.”

Why should he be? It was his Patsy Reds.

And it stayed 5-4 as the Reds managed a miniscule two infield singles over the last six innings to lose for the fourth straight time.

“Two little bleeders for hits (after Dunn’s homer),” said manager Dusty Baker. “I’ve got a headache.”

Told that no matter how good or how bad he is, Oswalt finds a way to beat the Reds and Baker said, “Yeah, he found a way tonight. Been a long time since I saw a pitcher leave after five innings with a one-run lead and still win the game.”

The Reds had something going against Oswalt in the second when Brandon Phillips doubles and took third on Dunn’s single — two on and no outs.

But Oswalt, who had only four strikeouts, got three of them in a row at that point, whiffing Edwin Encarnacion, Joey Votto and Paul Bako.

“We knew with Oswalt coming off the disabled list that he would be on a limited pitch count (75) and we got those two runners on in the second,” said Baker. “Then he struck out the side.”

Cueto, as per usual, was gone early — not because he was knocked out but because he knocked himself out by needing 110 pitches for six innings.

“Thirty pitches in the first inning and that’s a lot of pitches,” said Baker. “He made two mistakes — an 0-and-2 pitch to Kazuo Matsui, the leadoff hitter, that got them started in the first, and a change-up to Blum that he hit out (two-run homer in the third.”

The Reds finished with eight hits, two each by Dunn and Phillips, plus a single by Griffey, giving him at least one hit in all 11 games since the All-Star break, during which the Reds are 4-7.

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By Wizard

July 29, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks Michael and Y-City Jim. Man, you guys are walking baseball encyclopedias.Terrific.

By Y-City Jim

July 29, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

They are knocking but they don’t want to give up much for a rent-a-player for two plus months.

By Don L

July 29, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

All these people who run out the numbers stating that they prove Dunn’s value to the team should stop and consider that if he is so valuable there would be plenty of other teams that would want him. They would be knocking down the door for his services. But we know that’s not true. In fact we can not give him away without having to pay part of his salary. I say even if we can’t land anything except a draft choice or so we still will save the 17 mil per year plus the frustration of watching him wiff time after time with runners in scoring position. He simply is too high a cost to the Reds for what he brings to the table. I say make the best deal you can whatever it is and move on. Also, lets try anyone else at 3rd base beside Edwin. He just can’t cut it.

By Michael in Monterey, CA

July 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget Sean Casey.

By Y-City Jim

July 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Table setters during Dunn’s time - Pokey Reese, Alex Ochoa, Todd Walker (2001) - Barry Larkin (2002) - D’Angelo Jimenez, Barry Larkin (2003, 2004)) - Rich Aurilia, Felipe Lopez, Joe Randa (2005) - Rich Aurilia, Felipe Lopez, Scott Hatteberg (2006) - Alex Gonzalez, Josh Hamilton, Scott Hatteberg (2007)

By Wizard

July 29, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Michael: I do not dispute your point—but would be curious as to who those table setters were?

By Michael in Monterey, CA

July 29, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

During the past 8 years Dunn has been a Red the team has had tablesetters. It’s been 8 years and this team still can’t win. Time is not the answer- action is. There is slim chance the Reds will pay the kind of money Dunn will want. He will no doubt test free agency and get paid….somewhere else. A leader puts the team on his back and charges ahead when they’re down. I don’t see that coming from Dunn. Never have and never will. Rose, Bench, Concepcionk Larkin- they were leaders.

By Wizard

July 29, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Mike: Great observation by you! I saw it too, and am glad you pointed that out. Cueto did indicate it was his fault for not backing up, on his way back to the mound—but, how ridiculous is that? It is like I said recently, it’s the “Volquez-Cueto coma” that they both fall into during each performance. It can’t just be blamed on youth, either.This was supposed to be learned—as you say, in little league,then high school, then college, or minor league play. No excuse for the lack of fundamentals on this team! What the hell DO they DO in Spring Training? Seems to me they play too many games; and have not enough practice on fundamentals.

By Roho Radio

July 29, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, I don’t care who’s in the lineup anymore. Another month before football season……how many times have we been through this before?

By Wizard

July 29, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Mike-Cinci: As usual, you are correct. I enjoy your common sense comments. It is a frustrating year. Time,not trades seems the only hope. We definitely need table setters, which would make Dunn’s stats even more impressive.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Take a look at todays line-up…No Griffey, Patterson at lead off, Dunn in #3, Cabrera in front of Votto..Interesting!

By Jack

July 29, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Some of you will be happy, Griffey will not be in the three hole (Dunn), day off, but of course you know what the means, yes, he is leading off, playing centerfield. There should be a rule that if your average drops below .170, you can be cut and no more money is owed.

By Mike-Cinci

July 29, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

The key decision the Reds have is keep Dunn or let him walk. I would keep him and work hard to surround him with players who can get on base. The Reds played better with Hairston. He has a .398 OBP. He set the table. Phillips should bat 3rd and Dunn 4th. The Reds need another right hand hitter with some pop. EE, Votto, and Bruce need to show more than they have so far. They are young and have potential. Unfortunately Mr. potential has been a bust many times on many different teams. It is going to take a while to turn this around.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

The mention of fundamentals certainly is foremost in the game recently when Cueto was pitching. The ball hit to Bruce in centerfield for a base bit, Bruce throws home, the ball goes through Bako, a run scores, he has to retreive the ball. Meanwhile, the runner goes to 2nd, creating an error because of the runner taking 2nd on the throw. Cueto didn’t back up the throw, he was standing in front of the mound watching the play. Brennaman missed it, no mention of where Cueto should have been. This type of lack of fundamentals happens quite a bit with the Reds. Baker doesn’t mention it, neither does the media. It’s the basics which are learned in Little League but almost invisible with Reds baseball. Ross did back up up bad throw to 1st recently that got by Votto. It saved a base that day because of fundamentals.

By Calvin S.

July 29, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I have said before, you play a catcher for how he calls a game and for defensive reasons. Anything hitting he does is icing on the cake. Valentin is not a good defensive catcher. I think that Bruce will be fine, I not sure if Votto will ever make a good first-base man. This team makes way too many mental mistakes. It often seems like their head just isn’t in the game at all. I expect some changes in the off season. For one Griffey will not be resigned. I kind of think they might resign the free agents in the bullpen and Dunn. When you have young players you are going to have ups and downs, let’s hope they learn quickly from their mistakes.

By Y-City Jim

July 29, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Fundamentals should be a ongoing part of the MiLB and MLB program. While not all of these players came up through the Reds system, it doesn’t speak highly of what is happening in the minors. Perhaps this is more of a reason to “homegrow” our own ASAP. As for Dunn being a leader, define what being a leader looks like. I think Dunn is very much a leader. He shows disappointment when he does poorly and his sense of humor helps keep the club loose, which from the sound of the dining room/lounge ban from broadcaster seems very much necessary. I wonder if there is only a few announcers that are not welcome in those areas.

By Michael in Monterey, CA

July 29, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Some of you all have been missing the bigger picture with Dunn. I know about is 100 numbers but what good are they if they don’t help the team win? Put that aside- he’s slow in the field and on the bases, and doesn’t have a good arm or a good glove. He’s been on the team 8 years and still isn’t considered a leader. If the Reds don’t trade him now they’re missing a great opportunity to obtain despartely needed pitching.

By Roho Radio

July 29, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Cahill…..I’m on board with you. These guys learned these things in high school and we shouldn’t even be discussing these concerns at this level of play. What we see now is one thing….lack of desire. Managers fault? Keep Dunn and the starters for next year. Get some guys with with skill and a reputation around the league for playing like you offended their family honor. Maybe they’ll infect Dunn even more and he’ll finally get his All Star bid. Then we can watch him and Hamilton put on a fireworks display in the Home Run Derby.

By mike cahill

July 29, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Every new manager says that he will stress fundamentals. How does a guy get to the shoe when he doesn’t know to cover first on a ground ball, or to back up the throw to the plate. Votto still stands on first base as the ball hits the backstop. Why is the first reaction to wait instead of to act? Why aren’t these fundamentals taught in A ball? Most decent high school players have a clear understanding of what is expected in most situations. Are these athletes so amazing at a young age that coaches skim over those things? Dusty Baker deserves his headache and I think he’s shown very little relative to motivation and teaching. Yes teaching. These guys need remedial help in some areas and perhaps need a Biily Martin type melt down.

By Nick w

July 29, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

i agree with jack about dunn that they should keep him and sign him to a long term deal cus like everyone has said u can’t replace 40/100/100 so u gotta sign him. I think they need to move him to first and put votto at left. I think votto is a good athlete and will be able to play the outfield, and dunn is not a good outfielder at all. If u have dunn at first and he misplays a ball it is only a single if he misplays a ball in left and it goes over his head it a double or triple. So i think that would be the best way to keep dunn and he can help us with his bat and minimize the damage he does in the field if u put him at first.

By Cait

July 29, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Wow, I thought we women had some petty arguments, but you guys are worse! I’ve said many times on this blog - play Valentin over Bako; keep Dunn. I also keep Arroyo. His inconsistency is frustrating, but the young pitching isn’t ready to carry this team. Keep the vets Harang and Arroyo in there while the youngsters find their way. The youngsters remind me of the young Smoltz, Glavine and Avery that got pummeled for a couple of years then turned into the greatest rotation in history (when Maddux was added). I’m excited about the Reds’ future.

By Brarhopper

July 29, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Jack, BINGO! I have always thought Phillips should bat #3 and Dunn #4 and move Griffey down to about 6 (or preferably, move him to another team). Good comments here today on an interesting afternoon discussion. Yeah, this is more like it without all the quibbling…well, at least from most. I saw my name mentioned a few times already today, by the cop of course, and yet this is my first post today. Somebody holding a grudge?

By Votto 4 Pres.

July 29, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

I watch the Red’s almost daily on TV, and this year is more frustrating than ever! Maybe because I had high hopes for our young players with potential. Let’s face it though, we are in a tough division, probably the toughest in the NL. To beat teams like the Brewers, the Cubs, Cards, we must improve our team. The current Reds might not make the playoffs in the AAA league. Keep Dunn, because you cannot easily replace the numbers he puts up. Kick Griff to the curb, and use that money and pick up a reliable bat. We are at least a year or two away from a playoff spot, just look around our division!!

By Mr. Baseball

July 29, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Nick W’s analysis of EE is pretty accurate, sad to say. The Reds have no viable alternatives either on the big league roster or in the minors at third base. Kepp is not the answer at third base. He would do a good job defensively, but third base is a power position. Reds fans would be more likely to accept Encarnacion’s hot and cold offense if his defense was at least adequate and his hitting more timely. Ironically, he showed improvement in these areas last year in that he reduced his errors and was the Reds best hitter with men on base. Can he return to this form next year and continue on an upward trajectory? At 25, there is still time for him to become a consistent hitter and a better than average third baseman. But with all the other holes on this team, can the Reds afford to be patient with EE? If the Reds want to upgrade at third base, it will not happen internally; it will most likely come from an off-season trade of EE and another player for a couple players, one of which is a third baseman.

By Jack

July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Dont mean to monopolize the board, but very good debate today. I am for one, believe we should keep Dunn and not to say build around him because he is the franchise player, but build around his talents…HR’s. There are two things that are not changing…Dunn will not be a .300 hitter and the dimensions of Red’s the ballpark are not changing either. It is an absolute must to have a homerun hitter, especially left-handed in this ballpark. Obvious answer, but why does Dunn hit so may solo homeruns? because nobody is on base. As we have seen of late, Dunn will hit homeruns, it is just very helpful when someone is on base. Griffey and Phillips have not gotten in done in front of him. It would be nice to see Phillips in the three hole next year with Dunn cleaning up. The hope being more people on base, the more RBI’s he should produce. And while its easy to say you cant reproduce 40/100/100..because you cant, someone hitting .300 will not put up the same numbers. You need, especially in this little league field, need power…from at least one player.

By HuberRetired

July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Steve, you bring up an excellent point about body language. Votto shows no more emotion when he fans than does Griffey. I notice, however, Dunn yanks at his bat and seems bummed. I agree that the body language can be a very fair gauge of whether the player has any passion for the game. I saw Griffey smile the other day after he muffed that play where the ball fell in front of him. It was his second half-hearted effort of the day. I for one did not think that was a very funny moment. He seemed like he could care less and was in a hurry to get back to the dugout and sit down and clown around. There are plenty of guys on this team that show no heart when they play. EE usually looks bored and preoccupied.

By Nick W.

July 29, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Jack-im not saying that im a diehard edwin fan and that i want him to stay here cus he is the best ever, he not by far. I agree when he goes on a cold streak it is longer then most players, but he is all we got. The reds arn’t gonna trade him and there not going to put him back in the minors so we are stuck with him. Im just saying i don’t see anyone right now that is better then him in the minors. If we had freel here i would think about it cus we know he can play third he did it last year, but we don’t know if kepp can and isn’t janish a ss. He is also 25 years old and i know he has been up here for 2 years and he has had enough time but every player is different so u can’t compare him to phillips, in my opinon phillips is the best player we have. I just think if u have a young player who can start every day and give u some productivity and has room to grow u keep him. so thats my 2-cents if we could get someone better for him then go ahead and trade him if not keep him.

By Steve

July 29, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Anyone notice Votto’s body language after he struck out yesterday? He walked back to the dugout like a child being sent to bed. I see no inspiration, motivation, leadership, or professionalism on this team. That has to come from vets and coaches. It ain’t coming from anywhere right now. I know they are frustrated. I know they want to win. Problem is no one shows them how to play and act the right way. Nothing changes until that does.

By Mr. Baseball

July 29, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Mr. Baseball thinks that some are misreading Hal’s article today. What he’s saying is that the market is giving very little incentive for the Reds to make any deals at the trade deadline. The offers just aren’t good enough, so the Reds probably need to stand pat. That doesn’t mean changes won’t be made to improve the team in the off-season. Some of these changes will take place naturally. The Reds will not pick up Junior’s option next year. This will free up some some money, open up an outfield spot, and liberate the #3 spot in the lineup. Numerous other players will become free agents. The Reds have the option of pursuing those they would like to keep (e.g., Hairston) and letting the others (e.g., Bako) walk. A young nucleus of about 10 players will be back, barring trades. They will be a year older and a year wiser, we hope. The biggest decision will be about Adam Dunn. Should the Reds try to sign him or let him walk? Everyone says that his HRs, RBIs, and walks can’t be replaced at similar value. But his on-base percentage is overrated and he doesn’t drive in that many runs apart from his home runs. Very few 2-out singles to drive in a runner from second base.

By Jack

July 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Nick, I can get on EE for going cold. While every player goes on cold streaks, you cant go on one for a month…which i bet is what we will see with EE. Again, his cold streaks last longer then his hot streaks…see his average. He is not Dunn. If he had 30 HR’s and 70+ RBI’s, we might be able to live with it. You cant live with a low average AND low RBI’s. You need a high one in at least one area. With Kepp, you dont expect high numbers, but if he can have a .300+ battering Average, I think you can live with that. Just my two cents, Nick. He has been the third baseman for the last three or so years and still has not provded himself. I think thats enough time to judge talent. Like Phillips, maybe he would be better off somewhere else. As someone mentioned, very good debate, save for one or two. While not easy, just ignore posters that you dont like. With limited response, they will go away.

By nick w

July 29, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

You do make some good points but u also do tend to attack people when they disagree and u have done with me. If someone disagrees with u don’t take to hard just say that is a good point and go on to explain ur opinion. When u respond to someone u make sound like they are wrong and ur opinion is the only one right, and that is why people get angry at you. I agree the name calling and things like that is uncalled for but u got to think of it from our point of view it comes off like u r mad we are disagree with u. And when u make comments like i don’t sit next to the computer all day and post i have a job and a life..well i have a job and a life so when u make comments like that people will get offended. I got offended by that cus i do have a job it is just boring so i sit on here..i never comment after 5 when i get off cus i have a life. So when u make comments like that, is why people don’t like u. And i know ur trying to defend urself but make sure u don’t p**s everyone else off. I do think u make some good points its just when someone doesn’t agree with ur opinion u take it to seriously..

By Matt

July 29, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Nick W, I have no problem with you whatsoever. I was talking to Wizard, Hubertucky and brarhopper in my last post, and they know that I’m talking to them. I think your a good guy who makes several good points on here. Again, I wasn’t referencing you or anyone else except for the three mentioned above in my last post. So I hope that you and I are on good terms because I have no problem with you.

By bigdoc

July 29, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Trade EE? Kid is just 25, has a big upside! Won’t be Scott Rolen, but could be Aaron Boone-not bad. Kepp, even if he hits .330 (which looks doubtful) will never hit 10 home runs a year (3rd base??). My major concern: is Bruce a .270 hitter with little pop? Let’s hope he snaps out of it! Does anyone know if JR Hairston is signed for next year? I doubt it—he may get some real $$ from another team.

By Nick W

July 29, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

wow i thought we were having a good debate today, but apparently to have a respectful, intelligent debate we need matt to give his opinion. So please everyone ignore all the comments that i have posted or anyone posted to eachother today that matt did not comment on cus they arn’t respectful,or intellegent.

By Matt

July 29, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Hubertexastucky, you and your fellow “three Musketeers”, brarhopper and Wizard, are all three the same. You can’t win a debate or engage in a serious, intelligent discussion about Griffey, Baker, the Reds or anything else, so you rely on name-calling and insults to win your arguments. Sorry, but as I told Wizard, I’m not playing that game with you. When you’re ready to discuss/debate what we’re here to talk about in a respectful, intelligent way free of personal attacks, then we’ll communicate back and forth on here. Until then it’s not happening.

By HuberTexasTucky

July 29, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Yes Matt, we know you will post as often as you wish saying whatever nonsense dribbles from your Swiss cheese brain. It’s obvious when you occupy nearly 20% of the posts over the past two weks. There’s just no stopping you from posting from your great new job. I bet your boss loves you as much as we all do. Hahahahaha!

By Randy

July 29, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard a lot of good points here. Dusty is not the man to straighten out this mess. You can’t just say there’s no talent on the Reds alone. Talent is scarce across MLB period. As for the Reds, I’d let Dusty go now. (but, I don’t see WJ eating his contract) Let Speier finish out the year as I-Manager. I’d trade Dunn & Griffey for whatever they can get now. Don’t mess with the pitching staff for now. Do whatever it takes to bring Barry Larkin back into whatever capacity. Fix the Catching mess, find a CF, move EE to first where he doesn’t have to throw. Put Bruce & Votto at the OF corners, put Keppinger at 3B.

By Beard

July 29, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Hal we come to you for the inside information and if you say no one is likely to be traded then I believe it. What I can’t really believe is why. It makes no sense to me. I don’t think anyone would dispute that the Reds need some pretty big changes in order to compete for the playoffs next season. It seems to me that teams disparately seeking to make the playoffs pay a much higher premium for a guy at deadline time than they do in the off season. Not to mention if the Reds don’t intend to sign free agents to be like Weathers, Affeldt, etc. then they won’t get any compensation for them. Even for a guy like Dunn if they let him walk they only get two draft choices that couldn’t possibly be contributing in Cincy for at least 3 to 4 years. Now if the Reds fully intend to make a push to re-sign all their possible free agents then fine I can at least understand the logic in not trading them. But if you are going to let them go anyway you need to get something for them. I for one hope there are at least a few minor trades by Jocketty at the deadline (Weathers, Affeldt). If not then I’m not sure what to think. Is my logic flawed somewhere? Mr. Redlegs, Hal, anyone help me to understand how the Reds could be willing to stand pat this deadline period.

By Matt

July 29, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Let me explain something to you, Hubertucky or texas or whatever your name is today. I’ll comment on here as many times as I want to. If I want to leave 100 comments a day on here, I’ll do it, and there’s nothing you’ll do about it. Fortunately, I have a life and a job and I don’t have time to just sit on here all day long and comment. One thing you should learn though; it’s not about how many times you comment, it’s about what you comment about. As long as your comments have merit and are worth posting, there’s nothing wrong with it.

By nick w

July 29, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

The only possible solution right now with EE is try to trade him and get a young prospect. If we do trade him and hairston is back, we could move Keppinger to third and Hairston goes back to short and hopefully stays off the DL. The only thing is we don’t know how Keppinger will play at third and i think EE defense is not that bad he makes some amazing plays and compared to everyone else on this team, other then phillips, he is the same. And u can’t get on a player for going cold at the plate cus everyone in majors goes on a bad streak so u can’t blame him there, it is a long season. We don’t want to try our luck with someone in the minors coming up and trying to play third cus i haven’t heard of any of those players doing any better the EE in the minors. Is that better Hubertexas i will try and work on it!!

By Y-City Jim

July 29, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

“and all broadcasters - have been asked to stay out of the players lounge and dining room” - What does this say about the atmosphere and attitudes surrounding the Reds? Has this kind of tension existed in recent year or perhaps has it been intensified by the presence of Dusty Baker? Didn’t this kind of tension exist in Chicago just prior to his dismissal?

By HuberTexas

July 29, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Nick W — have you ever heard of punctuation or capitalization? Your post are hard to read when they contain a 400 word run-on sentence and about 15 independent clauses . Oh, and I see the blog cop is back to evaluate the posts.

By Jack

July 29, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Nick, I have to disagree. The one, and maybe only position in the minors that we have some upcoming talent is infielders. There is Frazier, Valiaka, and Janish. For the time being, I would play Kepp there. He is probably better suited to play third base. Not to say that Kepp and Hairston are the answer, but they can hold the fort down until we find a replacement. Not sure next year or the year after, but EE will have to start getting paid. Anyone want to pay him even decent money?

By nick w

July 29, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

u can tell how bored i am..i didn’t find a list go here and u can see there stats with runners on and runners in scoring postion not pretty.. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batting?team=cin&season=2008&seasonType=2&split=39&cat=avg&order=true&type=reg

By Reds Fan

July 29, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

These comments by everybody are the same every night! The Reds just have no clue how it’s done in a small market. Honestly I think and I say honestly it was a huge mistake to hire Dusty. Bob C wanted a big name and he’s a flop. Can anyone on this board tell me the Twins, A’s or Marlins manager’s name. We needed a young manager and a young hitting and pitching coach to teach these kids the fundametals etc. I liked what Jayson Stark said on ESPN Radio this morning: He will never underestimate the Twins the rest of his life. I think I would take my lumps as a Reds Fan losing 100 games a few years to put in place a plan stick with it and go from there. The Reds problem is they don’t have a Johan Santana who is going to give them trade value. No one wants Harang, Arroyo, Dunn, Griffey. The youngsters like Votto,Bruce etc we have to build around. I just don’t see this thing turning around at least for 5 years. If the youngsters develop and have career years from Votto, Bruce, EE, Keepy, Cueto,Volquez. I envy the Indians they are getting the snot beaten out of them but have a plan. A PLAN something the REDS haven’t had for years. Walt Jocketty has either no clue or no idea what he got himself into.

By Bill Hedgecock

July 29, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

At your convenience, would like to see a list of “runners left on base” by members of the Reds. Thank you.

By Bill Hedgecock

July 29, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

At your convenience, would like to see a list of “runners left on base” by members of the Reds. Thank you.

By Ron Braun

July 29, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Oswalt could be on the DL and be in a hospital bed and beat the Reds. Answer to our problems. Just go sign the guys who beat the hell out of us: Oswalt, Berkman, Lee with Chicago and so forth. That would give us 30 wins just to keep them from killing us.

By Ron Braun

July 29, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Oswalt could be on the DL and be in a hospital bed and beat the Reds. Answer to our problems. Just go sign the guys who beat the hell out of us: Oswalt, Berkman, Lee with Chicago and so forth. That would give us 30 wins just to keep them from killing us.

By nick w

July 29, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

i don’t mean to be a matt here and keep commenting but im really bored at work soo jack about EE i am a supporter just because he is all we have at third base no one in the minors, and i wouldn’t want kepp to move to third if has never played there and i would be different if freel was back cus he could play there but hes hurt and hairston is mainly an outfielder and he is injury prone and i don’t think we would get much for him..he is not the only one not hitting bruce didn’t get a hit in the rockies series either did keppinger dunn hasn’t been hitting that great and the only one hitting everyday is griffey so everyone one is going cold so there is nothing the reds can do with edwin cus we don’t have anyone to replace him..

By nick w

July 29, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

mr.baseball makes a great point..everyone is getting on dusty about the players making bad plays when they should have been taught all of that in the minors i mean thats the reason u have to go through the minors so u learn all those things and ur ready for the majors..u shouldn’t have to reteach all the things they should have learned in the minors so they real changes we should make is the minor league coaches not dusty…

By Bob

July 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Per usual, pitching is historically a problem, but no one ever addresses the hitting. When players have home run totals only double or less their homers, that is very clearly a problem. Homers provide most of the runs with very poor RISP averages. Furthermore, how can Dusty continue to play Bako against rightys when is average is so poor. He doesn’t hit against anybody. He did that with Patterson for three months, and now it is Bako. A poor hitter is normally; just that, against anyone.

By Rick

July 29, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Baffling to me how most fans want to get rid of the only guy who can produce (Dunn) so that the Reds can be left with the rest of the lineup that can’t. It would seem to me that improving the rest of the lineup and the back end of the rotation should be the plan.

By Jack

July 29, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Also forgot, for all the EE supporters, he is something like 2 for his last 22. Thats why his numbers stink. His cold streaks are far worse then his hot streaks. This guy has got to go, havent even brought up him being in the Top few in errors. Please, someone tell me why they like this guy?

By Mr. Baseball

July 29, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

As usual, Mike-Cinci makes some compelling points. Right now, the Reds’ farm system is pretty depleted. We have basically been playing catch-up since Marge Schott gutted the scouting system several years back. We’re getting better as evidenced by the presence of Votto, Bruce, Cueto,and Volquez on the major league roster, but the problem is that that’s the best of the farm system, there’s not much left after those players. We have no good catching or centerfield prospects, areas where we deparately need help. The Reds system has never developed pitching talent. There was a time a couple years ago where the only starting pitcher on the roster of any major league team developed in the Reds system was Brett Tomko. That should tell you something. But it’s not just the talent, it’s the failure to teach fundamentals in the minor leagues. It’s the failure to have a coherent philosophy about how to play the game, such as the Dodgers or Cardinals have. Votto’s failure to bunt earlier in the season when called upon is a telling example. He had only been asked to bunt once in the minor leagues. When Votto does not understand that he’s got to call off Ross on a pop-up halfway down the first base line, when Bruce does not understand that as the center fielder he has to take charge of a fly ball hit between himself and the center fielder, that means that certain fundamentals are not getting taught in the minor leagues. This is why Mr. Baseball cannot agree with all those blasting Dusty and the pitching staff. It’s not clear that they are the problem because of the hand that they have been dealt with the personnel. You could re-shuffle the current lineup and eveyone has offered ideas for hos to do so, but it’s not clear the results would dramatically improve.

By Jack

July 29, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

MAC had a great post regarding what the organization is saying if it doesnt make any moves. I do not think anyone believes that there is a major move to be made, but please do something to improve our minor league system. Matt is correct that it produced a great number of our current players, BUT there is no one left. I cant name a player that I would be excited to bring up. How many of us can name for then one or two players at Louisville. I can think of Jannish, and thats about it. It is time for some serious changes.

By Mike-Cinci

July 29, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Nick W.clearly explained the farm system problem. In a risky move here is an evaluation of the Reds young talent: EE, only 25 but I thought he would break out this year. He is inconsistent. He may be what he is. Votto, is he Hal Morris with a bit more power and less batting average? Does not seem to have natural baseball instincts; looks to go to sleep on occasion. At 25 he will be very good soon or just an average guy down at 1B. Bruce, the phenom is only 21. He needs to learn the strike zone or there is long term trouble ahead. He looks the best of the young guys. Bailey is 22 and who knows. Time will tell. Hopefully his attitude stays positive. Volquez, is 25. He looked great early. We are hoping for a #1 starter but we will see. Throws too many pitches for a 25 year old guy. Cueto, has great stuff but no clear idea how to consistently throw strikes. He is the pitching version of Bruce. He has the most upside. All of these guys need to produce big time because there are no reinforcements in the minors. Odds are all won’t succeed and all won’t fail. In any event the Reds are still short talent to compete with the better teams. Jocketty does has his work cut out for him.

By sam

July 29, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Why should the Reds stay with the current bunch of players? Yes, they have a few promising pitchers and players. But they still have 2 corner OF’s who are awful defensively, no avg. catcher, no SS,no CF. Thus, we are destined for the same ‘ole crap next year. It’s time for change. It can’t get much worse.

By Steven Ross

July 29, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Matt wrote: you just sound, Mike-Cinci, as if the Reds situation is totally hopeless and they’ll never be better any time soon, and I just have to disagree with you. Well, let’s see, the Reds are 12.5 games out of first and a half game from being in last. Yeah, we’re looking good.

By Nick W.

July 29, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

mike-cinci is right we don’t have a good farm system right now..last year we had on of the best but we brought all those players up and now there is no one down there tearing it up..so right now the reds do not have a good farm system so for next year it won’t look much different unless someone comes into spring traning and plays amazing..a good example of a good farm system is the flordia marlins they have traded away there great players and bring up more players and win like after they won it all in ‘97 and then traded away all those players and through there farm they built back up at team and won it again in ‘03 i think and then traded all those players away and still have a good team cus they have a good farm system and they don’t have a lot of money but they are a game out of first..the reds do not have a good farm system u might have a good team come up the ranks ever so often like last year but a good farm system does that almost every year so the reds DID have a good farm but now they don’t..

By Joe Smith

July 29, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

The Reds are living in a fantasyland. As a small market team, they cannot compete for free agents. therefore: hiring dusty baker was a mistake signing junior in 2000 was a mistake signing bronson arroyo was a mistake the template for the reds to follow is to get young, stay young, lose a lot, and groom future talen. it’s the only way they’re going to win. the A’s and the Ray’s are what they should be looking toward to emulate

By Steven Ross

July 29, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Matt wrote: I’m confident that with the team of Castellini/Jocketty/Baker, that this team will be better and get back to where they belong. Really? Maybe two-thirds of that triumvirate but not Baker. He has no clue. Do you know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. Example: Dusty’s lefty-righty lineup which never changes except Bako or Ross. So crass, so wrong!

By Wizard

July 29, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

The point is—which you keep missing—most folks on here don’t care what your opinion is!!!

By Matt

July 29, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Wizard’s name calling crusade continues. I was simply stating my opinion Wizard, which happened to conflict with Mike-Cinci’s. Notice how I didn’t use any insults or name-calling towards Mike-Cinci, I just stated my opinion.

By Wizard

July 29, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Mike: You forgot the most important evaluator— Matt!!!!

By Wizard

July 29, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Well, Mike-Cinci: How dare you have an opinion!You know that isn’t permitted when the policeman is lurking.

By Doco

July 29, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Dunn hit a home run to left field? And with runners on? That’s a breath of fresh air. Did anyone see Derek Lee’s game winning double to the opposite field yesterday? Driving the ball where it’s pitched in a clutch situation. It’s a beautiful thing. His 12th game winning RBI this year. In Dunn’s defense though he is tied for 2nd with 11.

By Matt

July 29, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Mike-Cinci, I would have to disagree with you about the Reds having a weak farm system. This team has a very deep farm system and has consistently been ranked near the top for the past few years. With the way your post sounds, it seems like the Reds are in for another 30 or 40 years of losing, with no hope whatsoever. Look at the players this team has developed that is on the major league roster; Dunn, Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Bailey, among others. This team is loaded with plenty of talent and while they are a few pieces short, blowing up the entire roster, as well as the minor league system, is simply not appropriate and not the answer. Especially with a younger team like the Reds have, your going to take your lumps. Look at the Tigers. One year they’re losing 90 to 100 games with the young team they put together. A year or two later, they’re in the World Series. The Rays have a very young team this year. The past couple years they endured their struggles, and now it’s paying off. You just sound, Mike-Cinci, as if the Reds situation is totally hopeless and they’ll never be better any time soon, and I just have to disagree with you. The Reds don’t look promising this year, but I’m confident that with the team of Castellini/Jocketty/Baker, that this team will be better and get back to where they belong, which is the top of the standings and the playoffs/World Series year after year. Not only in 2009, but beyond.

By rockieredsfan

July 29, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

Thank you WJ for not agreeing to pay a portion of Bronson’s salary. As a former Hamilton native living in Colorado Springs CO, I sure don’t want him on the Rockies and thanks to WJ’s “I’m no dealing Doug” (local TV car dealership owner here), Rockie fans can rejoice we are not getting him. As for the Reds, I still follow them and like the rest of the fans, I agree this team is going no where this year. It is difficult to watch them on TV. BTW, Hal, the brewery is still at Coors Field but under a new name. I’ll have a cold one for you!

By Mike-Cinci

July 29, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

I wish changing managers would fix the Reds problems but it will not. They have tried changing GM’s too and it has not worked either. The organization is a mess because it has no stability. Constant turnover kills you. Look what it has done for KC, Pitt, etc. The Reds just don’t have enough good players. They don’t have enough high impact players. The farm system is weak with no immediate help on the horizon. Every losing team looks awful. They make silly mistakes. They look good for a few days giving hope but revert to their bad playing ways a few days later. Losing teams look slow and uninterested. They all do. The team can dump some players at the end of the year but it will be difficult to improve because the better free agent players available will have better winning and financial opportunities than what the Reds can offer. This team is in deep trouble until it can fix its scouting and development program. Look at Milwaukee, they have developed Sheets, Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Hall…that’s how you get it done. Roy Oswalt was a 23rd round draft pick by the Astros. A good late pick and they developed him in their system. After losing 8 straight years it is hard to wait longer for success but until the Reds organization starts doing it the right way the misery will continue.

By Richard

July 29, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

I don’t feel Oswalt beat them, yea he got the win, but all the Reds runs were scored off Oswalt. They themselves and the the Astro’s bull pen beat them.

By Mike

July 29, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

One of the things we humans hold on to in life is a thing called hope. Hal, the sun came up the morning,I read your article, and you say it’s a good bet there will be no housecleaning,all major parts of the team will remain, & we are all in for a major disappointment. And if we have any hope,any thread of”what could be”..we are deemed “out of touch with reality”. If all these thoughts are true and the Reds for the next 55 games will run this bunch out there under Baker, GASP should have less than 10,000 in attendance when they open the doors August 4th. The Reds have given the fans absolutley nothing in the way of reasoning to continue to return to home games, spend thier hard earned money except we all should be glad that Cincinnati has a team for us to watch. It’s all businness to be sure, but there is something in successful business that is call being creative. Making something happen for the long term imoprovement of the organization. There are times you have to make shake things up. What the Reds may do in December to improve isn’t what Reds fans want to hear in July. So, Reds fans everywhere, you are hereby commanded to duly attend games, spend an inordinate amount of your pay check,zip your lip and accept mediocrity, because after all Mr. J is still evaluating!

By MAC

July 29, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

Right you R Y-City Jim and one has to wonder why Valentine doesn’t get more playing time? As U and I have pointed out on more than 1 occassion, his defense is not that bad behind the plate and they guy almost always has a good AB. Another Dusty line-up head shaker

By MAC

July 29, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

Hal, there is no reason to replace the entire roster and very few of us R advocating that, but the Reds should actively be looking to improve the team IMO. The impression I get from your comments and others is that WJ isn’t really trying to do that, he’s just window shoping for the rest of the season. Well if I’m Krivesky?, I’d be pretty PO’d about that…he could have watched from a distance while Mr. K. continued to improve the team this year. More importantly, what kind of message does that send to Reds fans…don’t bother coming to the park the rest of the year; we’re still under construction? That type of “MO” is about as sorry as the Reds play right now! Just business as usual in Reds land I suppose?

By Steven Ross

July 29, 2008 7:46 AM |