Hall of Fame baseball writer Hal McCoy is in his 36th year of covering the Cincinnati Reds, the longest tenure for any active writer covering one team. Counting spring training and postseason games, McCoy has covered more than 7,000 major-league baseball games, written close to 18,000 baseball stories and eaten enough hot dogs to give Babe Ruth indigestion.Home > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2008 > May > 12 > Entry
Break up the Reds … now
The Florida Marlins are in town and it got me to thinking — which is an accomplishment in itself.
How do the Marlins do it? What is their magic potion?
They arrived in Cincinnati with the best record in the National League and they arrived with the lowest payroll in the majors — $22 million. That’s about what the Reds, buried in the NL Central basement, pay Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn.
The Marlins were born ONE YEAR BEFORE the Reds last appeared in the postseason in 1994. And yet the Marlins have twice won the World Series. The Reds haven’t even got there.
The Marlins won their first World Series in 1997 with Jim Leyland managing a very expensive team purchased by owner Wayne Huizenga. Then that winter they broke up the team — traded, bartered and sold most of their stars.
Then they rebuilt, mostly from within. Lo and behold, with a low-salaried team managed by Jack McKeon, they won another World Series, beating the mighty New York Yankees.
Once again they broke up the team and started over — mostly from within, using players they developed or young players they acquired in trading away high-priced stars.
So over last winter, they traded their best power hitter, Miguel Cabrera, and their best pitcher, Dontrelle Willis, to the Detroit Tigers.
Now they come to Cincinnati with two real recognizable players — Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla. And another manager, Fredi Gonzalez.
What does that tell us, Cincinnati fans?
Is it time to trade Griffey and Dunn, if that’s possible, for young talent? Is it time to bring up Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey and a lot of other young prospects?
Looking at the standings I can only shake my head and say, “Get ‘er done.”
With seven straight losing seasons and the team on a direct path toward the eighth, what can it hurt?
Tear it up and start over.
And it was emphasized in the first inning Monday night when the Marlins hit back-to-back home runs in the first inning off Aaron Harang.
Then I saw Corey Patterson batting leadoff. Why, why, why?
It almost made me wish I was at the Cleveland Cavaliers-Boston Celtics game.
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Comments
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June 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
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May 17, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
reds have won four in row geter done for jesus, give them more time,god bless preacher,franklin,ohioBy Ryan
May 16, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
This article and every comment posted about it is worthless. Im not going to take the time to address every dumb comment, because there just isnt enough time in the day. Two things that I will address though are: People who have commented and said to trade Brandon Phillips are just ignorant. And people who say things like what did Norris Hopper do wrong: Norris Hopper is hurt. He cant play. So before you make dumb comments do your research.By Alan
May 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
It’s past time for trading Griffey. He is either dead weight, a jinx, or both. Red’s 8 losing seasons??? Now when did Griffey arrive?By stapbaa
May 13, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this
I’ve thrown in the towel Dusty then Jerry, move the Reds out of Sarasota. What did Hopper do wrong last year. Yeah, I stood and cheered for Freel and Kepp as well. E-mailed the scouting dept about a prospect 11 shutout innings vs the class A reds this year sighBy John Doe
May 13, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Mike: Who the hell is Chris Kelch? His last name is Welsh.Jimmy: you don’t have to post 3 times. Too many dumba**By Y-City Jim
May 13, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Most of the “talent” at Louisville is 30-years-old. The talent on down the line is a few years away from the majors.By Nate
May 13, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
I’m just glad you’re having the problems we used to have in Pittsburgh. After hearing your announcers talk about the Pirates like 2 dollar hookers I am glad to at least be able to look down at the overrated Reds. I know my team is bad. But right now yall are worse. LOL!!By Jake
May 13, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Onan, c’mon. That’s laughable. Bako, Hatteberg, and Weathers are serviceable Major League veterans. Those are much harder to find than you think and every team needs them to fill the roster. Gonzalez is also a ML veteran and with Keppinger he is a tradeable commodity. Then you want to trade one of the top two second basemen in the league, as he’s entering his prime? Yeah, brilliant.By Jake
May 13, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Dusty was the worst guy they could of picked for this team. He favors speed and small ball and is just not in touch with the way the game is played in this particular era (“walks clog bases”). He just doesn’t get it. He is killing the team with his in-game micromanagement and small ball. Plus, he is a notorious “veteran” guy, he plays favorites (see exhibit A: Patterson). So what will you do when you trade away the veterans? Let him ruin more young guys, kill our young pitching (prior/wood), or fire him less than 6 months after he was hired? It’s a horrendous situation either way; he should have NEVER been hired.By James
May 13, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
If you’re going to “blow up” the Reds, start by blowing up the bullpen - the bullpen is STILL the problem! Trading Griffey is fine, everyone would like to see him win a ring, and trading Hatteberg is no big deal; Dunn is worth keeping as a complimentary piece to Phillips, Votto, Keppinger, etc…however, the bullpen is still a joke and the Reds will continue to be the laughing stock of baseball as long as Baker keeps running the likes of Lincoln, Weathers, and Burton out there - Cordero can’t do it all!By Onan
May 13, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
You couldn’t be more right. Get rid of Patterson, Dunn, and Griffey. Cut Hatteberg, Bako, Weathers, and Alex Gonzalez. Trade Phillips and Arroyo and move Keppinger to 2nd. Bring up all the young guys that should come up next year and try to get some midlevel talent for the aformentioned players. The Reds could be great again…and not too far off.By Michael
May 13, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
I think the fans on this forum have made it clear that we prefer to let Griffey go. I haven’t seen to many Griffey Haters, just folks that realize that his hey- day is over. You can’t deny that he is one of the great players of all time, but he hasn’t done anything to help the Reds. He has missed too many games, and he has not been clutch, doesn’t hustle, and he gets paid too much for what he brings to the table. No hating here. Let it go….even the greats have to let go sometimes.By Wolverine
May 13, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
I am first going to tip my hat to Tom. I believe Hal truly loves the Reds and gives us the goods, but aside from him, I have wondered a long time if there are any “sports” writers on the DDN who actually like sports, starting right up with Kollars. Yup, lots of negative stuff out there, but when was the last time a DDN sports guy sounded like he still loved anything sports? You have the best jobs in the world,and sound like anst-ridden teens. And now, I agree, blow the Reds up, start over. Can’t get worse with young guys loving to play a game for a lot less money.By John
May 13, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Hal: RE “Breaking up the Reds,” all I can say is “AMEN.” But tell it to Doc Rodgers, who thinks they are still committed to staying the course they set during Spring Training…whatever course that was!By Mike
May 13, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Trust in Walt; another month or two and big changes in Redsland.By Howie Feltersnatch
May 13, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Blow it up and start over. Tell Dusty to get rid of his recasts, trade Griffey to Seattle, Dunn to the Yankees. Bring up the young dudes and let em play!!!By Hambone
May 13, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
I have heard Kelsh before and I think he is more than passable. His voice has some character, its just tough when we have been used to Marty for 35 years. Give the fella a break. The Reds have done a great job of assembling a radio booth for almost 75 years, here’s hoping they can assemble a roster one day soon that is comparable to the talent on the airwaves.By Bob Wehada
May 13, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Hal, You missed a good game last night the Cavs played some serious Defense down the stretch, Varejo showed up big in the second half.By Steven Ross
May 13, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
There’s no reason to keep Griffey anymore. Nobody cares about 600. Okay, very few. We’re not going to pick-up the $16.5 mil option so cut the cord. Get what you can and move on. Same goes for Dunn. He isn’t worth one penny of the $13 mil we’re paying him now. No way we’ll up the ante next year. Time to go. Let’s go young. Can’t hurt and might be fun to watch. We do need a right-handed power hitter so between Griffey/Dunn, we should get someone solid in return. Throw Bruce into the mix and you have potentially, a very fast OF too. Lock ‘n load!By Eric the Red
May 13, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
Speed, speed, speed! GAB has turned the reds from a tradionally pitching, defense, and speed team, into a mash it out beer league softball team. Unless the hit hrs, they do not know how to score. They have some decent speed on the team, but play station to station, and hope someone gets ahold of one. Horrible fundamental baseball. How about a hit and run or a double steal? Play some aggressive baseball. I agree Dunn has peaked and he and Griffey need to go.By Tom
May 13, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
This has me thinking that it can apply to sportswriters as well. I like Hal and Arch and Marc but, step aside for some young writers. The Dayton Daily News can save salaries and how hard can it be to find a replacement or two?By Bob
May 13, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Breaking up the current roster is as overdue as tearing down Shea Stadium. Pitching has been an eternal problem for a century of Reds teams, but this team hasn’t hit in the clutch in several years and what makes management think the same cast of characters will do any different. With Patterson now added to that mix of Jr. and Dunn; oh, I perish the thought. I wonder if George Steinbrenner would hire out as a consultant and come to Cinc. and set Dusty straight. Apparently current mgt. is not. How in the devil can he continue to use Corey? After his 4 hits last night, that’ll lock him up for the rest of the year.By Nathan
May 13, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
“I will give Krivsky some credit though; the Reds have like a top 5 farm system according to Baseball America.” I think most of those top minor leaguers were brought in by O’Brien?By mike cahill
May 13, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this
This choir member says Amen. You can love Junior and still want him gone.I’ll bet Adam is a pretty good guy as well. We need to get started with getting started. Speed, defense and a right handed hitter added to a pretty good pitching staff and we’ll be in the post season.By Rob
May 13, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
I will give Krivsky some credit though; the Reds have like a top 5 farm system according to Baseball America. And when was the last time the Reds have had this much young, potentially good pitching in the pipeline that has been self-developed. Since way before Jim Bowden. Just be a little more patient people. You can’t overhaul an old roster in one day, especially during the season. All the kids will be here soon enough. Try to appreciate Griff for the time-being so you can tell your kids and grandkids that you saw ‘The Kid’ play for your team. They don’t have to know that we got a shell of the best player in the ‘90’s.By Mike
May 13, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
Last night TV won…Thom and Brantley took the microphones and were great!.Over on the radio side it was Marty as usual in his narcissitic ways..he was joined by a AAA guy..Jim Kelch who is a Steve Stewart sound alike.After a while..it was turn up the sound on the TV time.The Reds showed Stewart the door a while back, fans didnd’t like him either. Kelch’s montone ways and he sounds like a million others is just so so. But I bet working with the great one took some pre game preparation! But, last night TV won as we didn’t to avoid George!By Rich
May 13, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
I agree with Hal’s points. I also agree with Coach’s points about Gentleman Ken Griffey. For those who think the well of young players is too shallow take a look at the Dayton Dragons. There are some high potential players there that would be playing very successfully in Louisville if the great talent that is presently playing there were to be called up.By sun deck lover
May 13, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this
To all of the Griffey haters out there (who were missing in winter of 1999) here are some numbers for comparrison of other “non-producing, overpaid” big bats. Stats are from 2005 season through Sat. according to mlb.com and lohud.com. Name,2008 base salary,games,hr,rbi. Jr.,$8.2M,415,96,272 C.Delgado,$16M,458,99,332 T.Glaus,12.5M,452,96,284 T.Helton,16.6M,477,55,263 C.beltran,18.6M,467,92,319 J.Thome,15.6M,365,90,255 P.Burrell,14.25,488, 100,378 As I have said before, Dunn’s numbers at the end of a year are a fluke. He is just a long ball hitter who is a terrible fit on this team. Maybe it is time for a full youth movement (seems to work for Florida and Cleveland), but don’t say that Griffey can’t hit. Like COACH said,he doesn’t have speed on his side anymore, but send him to the Yanks or somewhere he can DH. Because if you read above, he can still do that.By Bruce
May 13, 2008 5:59 AM | Link to this
The Reds should do one of two things with Griffey and Dunn. They should either sign both of them or trade them. I think this would settle the team down alot. I would prefer to see both of them stay because I feel it is the on base percentage of the guys in front of them that is the problem with getting runs. If you only come to the plate with runners in scoring position once a game you are not going to score many runs. Guys like hatterberg, only so Baker doesn’t feel obligated to start him over Joey Votto, Ross, Patterson, Fogg, should go first. Then you could bring up a couple of the veteran bench players from triple A who could possible get a pinch hit once in a while. Oh yeah Jay Bruce is Better thanm anybody we have playin gin front of him right now so make the move with him whether Baker is in love with Patterson or not.By Nick
May 13, 2008 5:29 AM | Link to this
Is it coincidence that: (1) our last winning season was 2000; (2)Junior came to the team in 2000; and (3) Dunn was called up in 2001? I think not. Throwing this heart of the order out there night after night/year after year and expecting different results is insane.By Me
May 12, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
It most certainly IS about Griffey and Dunn! They are dragging this team down—because they aren’t hitting the ball, when people are in scoring position—and have not been this entire season! Lots of Duds—to be sure.By Don L
May 12, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
Don’t be to hard on Griff, he was breaking in a new glove tonight, needs a little more WD-40. I liked tonights lineup with Dunn batting 7th, now if he only plays when there is a right hander on the mound it will be perfect.By Y-City Jim
May 12, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
The problem isn’t Griffey and Dunn. It’s duds like Patterson, Hairston, Valentin, Bako, Ross, Freel, Hopper, Weathers, Gonzalez, Merker, Fogg, and Lincoln. Trouble is they aren’t redeemable for young talent and while the Reds have some great talents like Bailey, Bruce, and Thompson, the well is pretty dry after that. On another note, Jim Kelch did a very professional job in the booth tonight.By ME
May 12, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
Mikey of Monterey—tomorrow night Weathers will eat your lunch! 33 saves last year—fool!By Ken
May 12, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
I’ve lost all confidence in Dusty. He’s an idiot. I don’t care if Patterson did get four hits, there’s no way he should be in the lineup. At least nobody batted out of order tonight. Bring Bruce up and start him everyday. Then alternate benching Dunn and Griffey. Maybe one or both will quit and go away!By Coach
May 12, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
The anger about Griffey is EXACTLY what he does NOT bring to the table. Knowledgeable people who have played the game, recognize that his skills have greatly deteriorated—thus the suggestions of trading him to the American league where his still smooth swing is all he’d have to have as a DH. It isn’t about bashing him—it is about recognizing reality. We have a better athlete right now in Louisville—who deserves the opportunity to play—just as a Young Ken Griffey did at one time! Griffey’s fielding and base running skills are gone—not even close to what they once were—because of his loss of speed. Speed once made him the great athlete he WAS! It is about improving the Reds, that he needs to go—not about calling him names. The ridicule of him comes about, because they keep playing him. He should not be a regular in the lineup of ANY team, except as a DH!By Rob
May 12, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
Finally some runs for Hoss Harang! How ironic Aaron gets his 2nd win on a sub-par night.By Max
May 12, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
Hal, you’re right, as usual. Bruce should already be here. You know what else? I actually gave Dusty Baker the benefit of the doubt to start this season — but he hasn’t encouraged my optimism thus far. Oh well…another losing season by the Reds; why not blow up the team?By Mike
May 12, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
You can break up the team but unless you have quality scouts to build a farm system it won’t work. You need good young players coming out of the farm system and that looks a long way off. Junior looked wonderful on his one hand drop and error of the popup in the 8th inning tonight and not much better when he fumbled and caught the fly ball by the next hitter. Who is going to take Junior? Hanley Ramirez is a very good talent.By Michael in Monterey, CA
May 12, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Release Weathers NOW!!By sick of this mess
May 12, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
This mess started with very bad decisions, starting with Baker. then with the boneheaded signings of Krivsky. Its been down hill all the way., If big Bob wants to eat another contract, start with Dusty!!!!By sick of this mess
May 12, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
This mess started with very bad decisions, starting with Baker. then with the boneheaded signings of Krivsky. Its been down hill all the way., If big Bob wants eat another contract, start with Dusty!!!!By jimmy
May 12, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
Why isn’t Jeff Kepp hitting leadoff? The batting out of order thing might be my last straw with Dusty. I just heard what Mr.Bruce is hitting in Louisville. BRING HIM UP!!! Maybe bring Homer. But his Rambo knife might need to stay. Along with his cry-baby ways. Bitter Reds fan venting.By jimmy
May 12, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
Why isn’t Jeff Kepp hitting leadoff? The batting out of order thing might be my last straw with Dusty. I just heard what Mr.Bruce is hitting in Louisville. BRING HIM UP!!! Maybe bring Homer. But his Rambo knife might need to stay. Along with his cry-baby ways. Bitter Reds fan venting.By Fisch
May 12, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Not to nitpick, but the Fish were born in 1993, BEFORE the Reds last post-season, which was in 1995. Still agree…the Reds current formula (which hasn’t really changed since 2000) isn’t working. Time for youth movement.By jimmy
May 12, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Why isn’t Jeff Kepp hitting leadoff? The batting out of order thing might be my last straw with Dusty. I just heard what Mr.Bruce is hitting in Louisville. BRING HIM UP!!! Maybe bring Homer. But his Rambo knife might need to stay. Along with his cry-baby ways. Bitter Reds fan venting.By Kyle
May 12, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Hal, you’re preaching to the choir. The sinners who need to hear this in the front office aren’t listening.